Interview with John Patitucci

Just as jazz royalty, McCoy, Chick and Herbie (with all of whom he has worked), are known on a one-name basis - so too is bassist Patitucci, John. Too-often solely celebrated as a top tier sideman or first call ‘accompanist,’ despite decades in the collective, highly improvisatory Wayne Shorter Quartet and the forgotten fact his eponymous 1987 debut (with Chick Corea and Mike Brecker, sidemen) was Billboard #1 and tipped for a Grammy, Patitucci has quietly produce 18 albums under his own jurisdiction. These include such gems as the gorgeously lugubrious One More Angel (1997); the exhilarating Now (1998) with John Scofield; the feisty and poignant Afro-Cuban descarga Imprint featuring El Negro and Giovanni Hidalgo; a varied, absorbing trio with Joe Lovano and Brian Blade, (Remembrance, 2009), and first The Heart (1992), then The Soul of the Bass (2019) - the former a classical, orchestral outing, the latter a largely solo affair, with stunning vocal cameo from Patitucci daughters Grei and Isabella. 

That skims a third of the output under the prolific bassman’s leadership, since he recently added two releases on classy UK imprint Edition, namely Spirit Fall and a liver from Italy with the same illustrious trio, including Brain Blade and Chris Potter. 

In the rearview are the mullets, perms and synth-etic swathes of the 80s, during Patitucci’s stadium heyday with Corea’s Elektric Band, yet at 65 (not yet retirement age since the US pushed to 67, the UK to 66), John remains remarkably unstodgy, both in energy levels and outlook.

Recently returned from his old stomping ground LA, where he attended the Grammys, nominated for the twentieth time, Jazzwise phoned the globetrotting virtuoso as he waited to fly out for a concert and seminar at North Texas State. 

Eager to discuss Spirit Fall, with new originals tailored for his favorite musicians, Patitucci praised a panoply of mentors, proved disarmingly modest and, less surprisingly, as articulate as his incredible bass playing.

The conversation has been edited for space and continuity.

 

John Patitucci: Ah, Michael, finally!

 

Michael Jackson: (apologizing for being two minutes past calltime)

 

JP: Oh that’s alright, I know my schedule’s a little crazy, so sorry about that.

 

MJ: And that’s been normal forever, no?

 

JP: Maybe for the last 45 years I guess, haha.

 

MJ: What is it about you that makes that the case?

 

JP: I’m grateful to God, otherwise it wouldn’t have happened. I’m just a kid from Brooklyn and I always have been, that’s all I can say.

 

MJ: But you were a known entity out west too, after studying in San Francisco, then Long Beach, before becoming a studio musician in LA.

 

JP: In Brooklyn we shared a home with my uncle and his family, then spent about a year and a half on Long Island, before the commuting drove my Dad crazy and he jumped at a job offer in San Francisco. We landed in the Bay Area in the 70s - a great time for music. Herbie had his new group the Headhunters with Paul Jackson, but also Sly and the Family Stone, the Hawkins Family in gospel music. All these jazz things were happening at the Keystone Korner and The Great American Music Hall.

 

MJ: That sounds like The Grand Ole Opry.

 

JP: TGAMH was a happening place, I saw Dizzy there, Thad Jones, Bill Evans.

 

MJ: Evans with Eddie Gomez?

 

JP: After Ron (Carter) and Ray (Brown), my Mount Rushmore of influence, were Eddie Gomez, Dave Holland, Jimmy Garrison, Reggie Workman too, and Charlie Haden. People say “You must have loved Scotty LaFaro!” I did appreciate him but didn’t discover him until after Eddie Gomez. Albert Stinson I loved, he didn’t live very long (died at 24, LaFaro at 25). Henry Grimes was also phenomenal.

 

MJ: Gary Peacock, with that driving sound?

 

JP: To be honest Gary not so much, except for Tales of Another, which was the first record, by the way, with Jack (DeJohnette), Keith (Jarrett) and Gary on it. That’s a great ECM record. I love his writing and his sound, very woody and acoustic.

 

MJ: And Miroslav Vitous, your predecessor with Chick (Corea)?

 

JP: Well Stanley (Clarke) was the first big one for me, then later on I found out about Miroslav as well. But Stanley was the most pivotal of all time with Chick. Stanley, Eddie, Miroslav -that handful of guys in Chick’s orbit.

 

MJ: Miroslav wasn’t a funk player by accounts, so he fell out with (Weather Report co-founder Joe) Zawinul, who craved cross-over R’n’B appeal.

 

JP: Nope, in fact I think Miroslav was interested in joining (Chick Corea’s) Elektric Band when I got the job. I think he was primarily an upright player, he was playing in the trio with Roy Haynes and Chick and I guess Chick wanted someone who could play both (electric and acoustic). Not that he couldn’t, I believe he did with Weather Report or maybe on his own records but I guess Chick was looking for a younger player who he could take in a new direction, which he did, haha!

 

MJ: how did Chick’s Scientology jibe with you, being a man of religious convictions?

 

JP: We didn’t talk much about that, it was something we had a completely different worldview on. I remember a brief conversation about it but it wasn’t very…I’ve had a lot of conversations with Wayne Shorter but that was different…

 

MJ: Wasn’t there a concert in Germany when he was cancelled for his beliefs?

 

JP: There were gigs where they actually protested us in Southern Germany.

 

MJ: Chick’s Scientology and Wayne’s Buddhist beliefs and cosmic outlook influenced their music in some ways.

 

JP: I guess, but Chick and I didn’t talk about that much, I just know he was amazingly kind and supportive and launched my career internationally. He got me my first record deal, mentored me, taught me so much, I just knew him as the man he was and I appreciated him for that.

 

MJ: He had a very playful attitude, right?

 

JP: Yeah and very encouraging. I learnt a TON. Later Wayne was a second father to me. I was very fortunate to have those two, Herbie also and Freddie Hubbard. Joe Farrell was very kind as well, a bunch of people…Victor Feldman. Jazz royalty who really went out of their way to teach, mentor, encourage.

 

MJ: (Pianist/vibraphonist/pianist) Feldman was active on the LA session scene back then, eh?

 

JP: One of the most famous British exports in the history of jazz, a great man, very kind. He taught me a lot. The first time Chick heard me was with Feldman’s trio. Chick said “do you play electric? I want to start this band.” He requested recordings playing electric, so I sent a Clare Fischer record I was on, some live things from the Baked Potato in 1983. He called and said “I’ve been listening to your stuff and I really like it,” then he said goodbye and I figured “Oh boy, I guess I didn’t get the gig.”

 

MJ: But, wait for it…

 

JP: Two weeks later I was at a session and Wally Grant, a very funny, sarcastic engineer came on the intercom, “Chick Corea’s on the phone.” I said “yeah, thanks Wally!” and hung up. He buzzed back “No, it’s really Chick” and I went “you know, Wally, you’re a drag man,” and hung up again. Finally, “you idiot, it’s really him.” Chick says “I know you’re busy doing all this recording and stuff but would you consider joining my band?”

That was a big deal.

 

MJ: you were in demand as a sessioneer, what was going down that day?

 

JP: It was a gospel record of some sort. Abraham Laboriel would get me on recording sessions. He was a first call session bass player, who could only be at one place at a time. I got a lot of chances through him, one of the most recorded pop/jazz guys in the history of LA sessions. From the mid to late 70s, all the way through the early 2000s there were thousands of records he was on. He’s getting up there but I think still active and playing. His son Abraham Jnr plays drums with Paul McCartney. He was a big hero of mine, spiritually as well, we used to go to Church together.

 

MJ: presumably you were an Italian Catholic growing up?

 

JP: Yeah, but I changed when I was 17, I became a regular Christian. Went through all kinds of Protestant, more charismatic churches. I’m an elder in a non denominational church in New York.

 

MJ: Which probably means good works are a thing?

 

JP: Yes, I’m a firm believer, it’s not easy, but you have to try and walk the talk. If you say you’re following Jesus then you have to love people, serve and try to help them. Some who say they are believers…but now I’m going to get political, I should probably stop.

 

MJ: You are fine speaking your mind in the pages of Jazzwise, it’s time for us all to speak our minds. It was a low point when Bishop Budde felt it necessary to request mercy in a holy place and was ridiculed by the leader of the country, who purports to be a Christian.

 

JP: Well, he doesn’t even know how to hold the Bible, never mind read it, so I don’t want to get started on that. That’s probably enough that I said, right there.

 

MJ: So with Spirit Fall (which references Patitucci’s sensation that the Holy Spirit descended during particularly sublime musical moments with the Wayne Shorter Quartet), you’re back in a (semi) acoustic format. Given the short shelf-life of synthesised sounds, synclaviers, Simmons drums, is an acoustic trio with horn and drums terra firma?

 

JP: Well, I think all of it is terra firma, because I’m a product of the 60s and 70s. There was an awful lot of groundbreaking music done from the swing era to the bebop era, postbop, ‘Trane, Wayne, Miles, obviously Charlie Parker was a huge influence too first of all. I started listening to Bird when I was 12 or 13 and before that Wayne with Blakey. I heard Wes Montgomery and Thelonious Monk but I was also deeply into Motown, James Jamerson, Willie Weeks, Donny Hathaway, Chuck Rainey. My first instrument was electric. I wasn’t big enough to hold an acoustic bass until I was 15.

 

MJ: But you don’t have to glom product on your big hair like back in the GRP fusion days?

 

JP: My daughters have a lot of fun laughing at those old videos of their father in the 80s. They get a kick out of all that, also the clothes we were wearing too, they destroy me on that.

 

MJ: Were your parents jazz friendly?

 

JP: They weren’t inherently predisposed to that music, they came to it through my brother and I. But my great grandfather on my mother’s side, who ran a speakeasy in Brooklyn throughout Prohibition, came into contact with jazz, and my grandfather liked stride piano, Eubie Blake, Earl Father Hines…he bought my older brother his first guitar. And my mother was so kind (check “Joan” a paen to mom from Imprint, 2009). At Christmas she’d ask “What do you guys want?” My brother and I would give her a list and she’d go get me ’Trane records.

 

MJ: Your father was a second generation immigrant from Italy, correct?

 

JP: Yes, he was the youngest of eleven, he grew up working, before and after school, in my grandfather’s hat shop. My grandfather came over on a boat in 1910. My dad just turned 93 yesterday, he’s a character. His work ethic is insane, so I was taught to show up early and work my butt off and not expect anyone to hand you anything - a lot of things beneficial to having some sort of success.

 

MJ: Ergo, you don’t suffer fools or tardy types yourself?

 

JP: Because of my faith you know, my job is to love everybody and judge no-one. I’m a sinner too and need God’s help with that. I was raised in an intense environment, both my parents were quick-witted and sarcastic but I try to extend grace as much as I can, and not be nasty. I think it’s important to model the behaviour I believe in.

 

MJ: If I recall, a year ago Geoff Keezer sparked debate online, criticizing (Juillard) students for showing up late and ill-prepared, concerned that this wouldn’t prepare them for the real world of dawn lobby calls, vis-á-vis your early start this morning.

 

JP: He may have, Geoff Keezer is amazing, I think that’s what separates the proverbial men from the boys. Not sure how you’d say that correctly now, but I would say the ‘men and women from the children.’

 

MJ: Let’s talk about Chris Potter, clearly a man unafraid of hard work, when did you first hook up?

 

JP: In the early 90s, I was talking with Michael Brecker, we became very close even before I started playing with him. When I was still living in LA I wanted to go on the road with my own band. It was actually at Chick’s urging. I would play my little tunes at the piano and he would say “What are you doing?” “Trying to write” I replied, so he said “you should play these on the road with your own band and make a record.” “That sounds great, how’s that gonna happen?” He said “Ill take care of that.” Sure enough he did and that’s how I met Brecker, he played on my first album. Anyway Mike didn’t hesitate when I asked about the New York tenor player: “Get Chris Potter.” I said “Wow, who’s that?” I knew he’d played with Ira Sullivan and Red Rodney. He came on the road with me, I was immediately blown away.

 

MJ: I was listening to your blistering Now (1998) with Brecker, Potter, Scofield and Bill Stewart. Not sure how I missed that one at the time. Purchasing online there was no personnel info and I thought it was Lovano on tenor for a minute, but it was Chris. Perhaps he was going through a Lovano phase back in the 90s?

 

JP: Well, I know he respects and loves Joe but also, when you think of it, I had Bill Stewart in that band, a huge foundational element in John’s (Scofield’s) music and with Joe too, it would be as if I was stealing John’s band, so I didn’t want to get too close. John is one of my absolute favorite guitarists of any era, a true improvisor. And Chris is one of the few child prodigies who has kept developing. You’ve seen it before, someone amazing very young, then you hear their parents push them to be a bandleader too soon or they don’t actually develop beyond a certain point. If you stay at the same level as your child prodigy self you start getting compared with those that changed the music, the innovators. With Chris, he just kept coming at an incredible rate. I would say, off the top, the most incredible child prodigies, who kept developing, evolving, are Terri Lyne Carrington and Chris.

 

MJ: we know Chris has his own thing but he does a killer Rollins’ impersonation too on “Without A Song” from the trio in Italy (2022). There’s a cool intro to “Mali” also, a moment when Chris starts this insistent split-tone riff and you seem to be in every octave at once on your six string, before kicking into the groove. That’s only the beginning of the fun, you and Brian goad him on with incredible bounce and bouyant rapport in the meantime.

 

JP: I think that record came out really good sonically actually. Al Travi the great Italian promoter got his friends to work on that and they did a really good job of capturing it. At first we put it out on my Three Faces label, on which we also released my solo record Soul of the Bass and Brooklyn which features the two-guitar band with Steve Cardenas ad Adam Rogers. But it’s a lot of work when you do it yourself. When I heard about the Edition label, that they do vinyl too and all the pressing, I said “wow!” They produce CDs also and are very good at promoting, I appreciate them.

 

MJ: Three Faces is your wife’s management company also, named after her and your two daughters. She’s been managing you for over 25 years now?

 

JP: yes and we celebrate thirty years of marriage this May.

 

MJ: but you were married before, correct?

 

JP: We had young and foolish marriages, when we met we’d both been through the wringer the first time out. In my case some of it was my fault. I was trying to grow up too fast, outrun God’s better plan for my life (laughs). I ran into a brick wall. I was running very fast emotionally, wanted to settle down and it really wasn’t time, I was way too young.

 

MJ: It helps that Sachi, a cellist, is a musician also no doubt.

 

JP: She’s a heck of musician, amazing. She saved my life.

 

MJ: helped steady that legendary equilibrium, which is a hallmark of your playing. What about your first meeting with Brian Blade?

 

JP: I first heard him on a Joshua Redman album on the radio and flipped. I was trying to figure out where he lived, there was no contact for him. When I came to NYC, Danilo (Perez) had grabbed him for his Motherland record. That was the first time I played with Brian and it was heavenly. I thought “Yep, where’s this guy been my entire life?!” We had a soul bond immediately; it’s been the same ever since, 25 years on.

 

MJ: He’s full of subtlety and then eruption.

 

JP: Like me, he’s eclectic, interested in all styles of music. His dynamic range, the colors and sounds he gets out of the drums are very personal. With Brian I could start using microphones, doing things to get a better acoustic sound out of the instrument. Some drummers play to loud and the microphones I use just become another drum mic. It’s tricky to get that woody tone live on acoustic bass that you can get with a big Neumann mic in the studio. It’s become more doable with the advent of different microphones and pre-amps you can run through your amplifier and get an earthy, organic sound, and still hear yourself on stage without monitors. I like to put the mics behind, in my own amp that I can control, so I am not beholden to a monitor. Brian made that possible.

 

MJ: Because he plays quiet?

 

JP: …and also big and giant at the right times. He’s a real musician, a deep musician, who happens to play the drums.

 

MJ: You have so much mileage together now with Wayne and also the Children of the Night trio with Danilo, he’s been a significant influence also, needless to say?

 

JP: Jack DeJohnette connected Danilo and I. I heard Danilo’s Panamonk and flipped out about that and Chick dug his record Journey. I flew to NY to make this record date with Hong Kong guitarist Eugene Pao. It was with Jack, Mike Brecker and myself and Jack invited Danilo to the studio who came by with David Sanchez. When I moved back to NY in ’96, Danilo and I started working with Roy Haynes, and Dave Burrell (Kenny Burrell’s son) booked us with Mike Stern and I think Terri Lyne, which was interesting.

 

MJ: You’ve been involved with quite a bit of latin music and were just nominated for a Grammy in the latin category. You credit Danilo with helping develop your rhythmic sophistication.

 

JP: Yes that record was with Donald Vega, which was fun (As I Travel, Imagery Records). But even before Danilo I had some great mentors. Alex Acuna, the great percussionist who played drums with Weather Report is on a lot of my LA records, he’s amazing and Airto (Moreira) was my first Brazilian teacher. I was in his band and also worked with Oscar Castro-Neves, Dori Caymmi and Ivan Lins, a lot of Brazilian mentors. I also played with El Negro, the great Cuban drummer but Danilo really inspired me not only about folkloric African rhythms, Afro-Cuban, Afro-Panamanian and Afro-Puerto Rican, all the different varieties of African music as they travelled through all these countries, sadly because of slavery. He hipped me how to use them in odd meters, he was writing a lot of stuff that wasn’t in 4/4. I’d never played in a band that swung so hard and was so funky in odd meters, that was a big excitement. He’s my younger brother but I feel I’ve got the better end of the deal, I’ve learnt an overwhelming amount from my brother. He’s a brilliant dude, a genius individual, not only talented but his desire to grow is incredible, always exploring new things. We hit it off immediately because I really want to know stuff.

 

MJ: You’ve been composing your own music for years but wrote specifically with the members of the Spirit Fall trio in mind, what worked best for you with this strategy?

 

JP: Even though I was writing for them, you don’t know what’s going to happen in the studio creating since these guys are extraordinary.The way they interpreted (the compositions) really blew my mind. They made the music larger than life. The opener “Think Fast” moves rapidly and everything is going well and it goes into a lot of different places. “Lipim” is the word for “hope” in the west African dialect of Cameroon, that I got from the great guitar player Lionel Loueke (from Benin). I wanted to find a word for that. It’s a very West African bassline and we dubbed bass clarinet over the saxophone and I had Chris float the melody. Have you heard these folkloric recordings of Los Muñequitos de Matanzas, (Cuban rumba)? They sing kind of out-of-time, almost like a spiritual thing, the rhythm is really free, as if they are drunk. So I had them play like that, then the second time through, the melody snaps more inside the rhythm. The woody sound of the bass clarinet really belongs with the African groove.

 

MJ: Chris sounds intoxicated, but with pure musicality, dissecting the meter, outrageously, Brian’s dampened phat-back beats kick it and your bass irrevocably sings the riff, rock solid but never stodgy. Monster stuff. The title track Spirit Fall smoulders with interesting harmonic transitions, it’s a standout.

 

JP: My aim was to make it like a meeting between Wes Montgomery and ‘Trane. Chris really ‘Tranes out on soprano with Brian just swinging. I tried to make it so people wouldn’t miss the acoustic bass.

 

MJ: Talking of which, how is traveling with that thing, early boarding is necessary I assume?

 

JP: It’s an asset but sometimes troubling to me that I’m a ‘million miler’ at this point - I’ve spent way too long at airports. David Gage the great luthier in New York did a great surgery on the Pöllman double bass I’ve used since I was 18. It’s a procedure developed by a French Canadian. Often the neck is connected to the body with glue that eventually wears out, so the connection isn’t as solid and you lose bottom end. David made it so the neck bolts to, slots into the body, it’s always supertight. Pretty ingenious and the bass sounds even better. The neck fits in a smaller case that fits on the larger size case, and believe it or not, makes it smaller and lighter at about 69.5 pounds - pretty good for a bass.

 

MJ: But you have another contrabass that you wouldn’t dream of doing that to, if I’m not mistaken?

JP: My mentor Chris Poehler made it possible for me to realize a dream and own an Italian bass, so I now have an 1860 Gagliano which I never fly with, only drive with. It’s featured on Spirit Fall at The Bunker Studio in Brooklyn. It has a beautiful jazz pedigree as it was owned by Art Davis who played with Coltrane and McCoy Tyner. I’ll be paying for it, on time, for the rest of my life!

 

MJ: Bravissimo! No six string needed on this voyage then?

 

JP: Oh yes, I have to, we’re playing the music from Spirit Fall.

 

MJ: Folk make a fuss about the six string but you’ve been playing one for donkey’s years.

 

JP: The six-string started in 1985 when I heard the great innovator Anthony Jackson playing it. Anthony played with many heavyweights, including Chick and on some of Chaka Khan’s massive records, with Roberta Flack, he even went on the road with Buddy Rich when he was young. If you look at HIS list of people he’s played with, it’s a mile long. Love him. People said he was crazy and would get tendonitis playing the six string. When I heard the sounds he was making on it, I was like, ‘he’s the Galileo of his day.’ He’s found something that’s really an innovation. So he shall get all the credit.

 

MJ: My editor Mike Flynn is a tasty electric bass player and a big fan of yours, I’m sure he knows about your gear but we should throw him a fish.

 

JP: I used a signature red model I designed for Yamaha decades ago with Chick for years but felt I’d beat it up pretty good and it was time to retire it. We did some touring before he died with the Akoustic Band and the trio record came out just before he left. But he had wanted to go out with the Elektric Band again, so I had the butterscotch brand I’m using now, made in anticipation. For sentimental reasons I’m going to play this for a while. We even designed the pre-amp, the electronics. It’s the one I’m most involved with. I’ve been designing instruments with Yamaha since the early 90s.

 

MJ: Your former student John Davis is the hybrid mixmaster at The Bunker in Williamsburg, a man you trust implicitly at this point. I assume Neumanns were on hand for Spirit Fall'?

 

JP: I think we used Neumann mics, not sure which number, on the amplifier, which was an old Ampeg B15, that they used in the Motown era, and we took it direct box too…The other thing I love about Edition Records is that they are making Spirit Fall a double vinyl so that we don’t lose any frequency. If you try to squeeze too much music on a single vinyl you are going to lose some signal. With records, they want to see twenty minutes a side to get the maximum amount of bottom and of course, we bass players want to see as much bottom as you can give us!

This feature originally appeared in the April 2025 issue of Jazzwise – Subscribe to Jazzwise today